Joel Totoro:

This is the Thorne Podcast, performance edition. The show that navigates the complex world of sports science and explores the latest research, diet nutritional supplements and the human body. I'm Joel Totoro, director of sports science at Thorne. As a reminder statements in the, this podcast have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. Any products mentioned are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Joel Totoro:

Hello, everybody and welcome to the Thorne Podcast performance edition. Joining me today is Grant Harris, director of nutrition with the Cleveland Guardians. Prior to his working the major league baseball, Grant has worked Dallas Cowboys, the Minnesota Twins, the University of Michigan. Grant, welcome to the pod.

Grant Harris:

Thanks, Joel. Appreciate it. Excited to be here. Excited to talk a little bit about some Thorne stuff today too.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. We're super happy to have you. One thing I didn't mention in your intro is you started in the culinary world. You have a culinary degree. Can you talk a little bit about, it's a bit of a rare path to professional sports. Can you talk a little bit about how you found nutrition and your path to where you are today?

Grant Harris:

Yeah. Actually kind of funny. I almost fell into performance nutrition just through the back door of culinary like you said, in my undergrad was strictly biology and I didn't have much intention of going into nutrition and then I just wanted to follow a passion after my undergraduate so I decided to go to culinary school.

Grant Harris:

And fortunately I had some amazing chefs that I worked with there that pushed me in the right direction. And throughout my internship through Johnson & Wales, I was able to work with Brian Snyder with the Denver Broncos and he really ignited my passion for sports nutrition. And long story short, I back to school, head in that direction and becoming a dietician for performance.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I think it's interesting and you have a unique perspective. We talk a lot in the dietetics field about having a food first mentality but given your culinary background, you really live that world and you understand it. I think at a different level than a lot of us had exposure to growing up or through our schooling. So, how does your culinary background influence how you practice nutrition and even how you educate and teach your athletes?

Grant Harris:

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I'm really surprised how helpful it has been over the past five years since I've got my license. And baseball is really food service heavy, it seems to be like. The past few years working with the dieticians that are in this league are amazing and they're brilliant. So, I've learned a lot from them but having the food service background that I have has helped me a lot, just navigating, being able to fuel our athletes properly on the road because we do travel so much. We play 162 games a year, so it's a long season.

Grant Harris:

So just being able to navigate that in terms of providing food, that's not only nutritionally sound for them but also keeping it a variety and keeping some nuance in terms of giving them something new and in day in, day out, that's what's been most helpful for me. And honestly, since I got out of culinary, I've been trying to step out of the kitchen as much as possible and put my nutrition hat on a bit more but just having that background, I keep getting dragged in a bit which is fine, I enjoy it, it's nice to have that expertise to fall back on whenever we need it.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. It's tough and having done it's tough, you have to have your culinary hat on and then your science hat on and sometimes it's wait, which one do I prioritize? And at the end of the day, it's a balancing act and I think you do a pretty great job about it. One thing I think you touched on a little bit is, I don't think people realize how big the major league job is.

Joel Totoro:

So you have so many road games, so many athletes to take care of but there's also the minor leagues where there's a lot, three to four times as many athletes with very different levels of budget. What are some of the things you see that are true across all budgets or what do you hope to... What are some of the things you look for that are consistent regardless of budgets.

Joel Totoro:

So, people at home don't have the same budget that the Cleveland Guardians do.

Grant Harris:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Joel Totoro:

Do you see any red threads through, this is what I do at every level, I just have to figure out how to make it work.

Grant Harris:

Absolutely. I mean, I don't know if you know it any better than anyone else because you've done it for a long time as well, working with the Patrons and stuff in the past. But honestly, it's all about finding those caterers that are willing to work with you and provide the best product possible. And it's been tough with COVID because we have so many protocols now that are having everything being preboxed and ships that way and delivered. And so it's the foods, the quality is just not there.

Grant Harris:

So being able to find products that are being delivered hot and ready and fresh in these protocol times or these COVID protocol times is tough. So, we're slowly getting back to that, which has been my saving grace, because if we can get back to food, being more of an option for the players, giving them more options and providing those for them so that they make those healthy choices versus just having prebox options that they may or may not even eat after we spend what little budget we have on it, kills me.

Grant Harris:

So it's been really difficult the past couple years navigating those kind of avenues. But once we are able to find some local caterers in that areas, particularly when we're at home, we latch onto them and go full bore with them because they're the ones who are going to make the most difference. They want to prosper, they want their business to do well and we to have great food, so they're going to work with us to deliver that possible.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I think it's always funny in this industry, regardless of what you're talking about, it's always the people who care a little bit more that you end up working with because they care enough to be there on time. You can trust them. It's not just great food, you have very strict window to get it in there and schedules change all the time. So there's thing more valuable than a trustworthy food provider for sure.

Joel Totoro:

Another thing I think is unique about baseball and we talk a lot on this podcast, there's obviously the knowledge side, but so much of what we do is on the coaching side. So do you find because you have people, so many athletes from so many different age ranges and countries of origin and food preferences, do you find food actually is an easy way to start a conversation and establish a rapport?

Grant Harris:

It really is. You hit the nail on the head there with working with so many different cultures and generations now within baseball because we have a lot of young coaches coming up but we also have a lot of old school baseball coaches still too. So, I've been working on my Spanish poquito espanol is what I tell them all the time.

Grant Harris:

Please just talk slow to me but food is an easy direct route to show them that you care because if we can provide something that might be local to them in their culture and bring that to them in Detroit or San Diego or someplace that they may not even expect, it's going to really brighten up their day and make them perform that much better because they're comfortable with it. And then they're comfortable with speaking with you down the line.

Grant Harris:

This whole business is about trust and being able to develop relationships with your athletes and your coaches, your staff. So, food is home for a lot of people. So if we're able to provide good food that reminds them of home, it's just makes our lives so much easier.

Joel Totoro:

So little goes such a long way, it just goes to show like, Hey, I care about you as a person, wins and losses are great but here's a little bit of something extra to remind you of the human side of human performance. You talked a little bit about the culinary world and the science world. So, when in your world do supplements play in. Again, we focus on food but there's sometimes the demands are just so high or the circumstances are different. So where do supplements fall into your programming?

Grant Harris:

Yeah, I am food first, whole food as much as possible dietician. But you know that's not always the case and that I hit on this a little bit before with having so long season and being on the road so much, it's just not always possible to provide those high quality food products that we're looking for. So that's where supplements come in, they cover the gaps and they help us recover more and get back on the field and feel they can perform at their best despite maybe not having the best possible circumstances going on, it's our coverall.

Grant Harris:

And the science behind supplements is blowing up. I feel like there's so much more science and research going into supplements is it helps us really hone in on what can help our athletes, whether that be in baseball or whatever sport someone's working with. It's very particular and unique these days.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I think that's one thing we've seen over the years and it's still a pretty young industry, the whole sports performance world. When I was coming up, you had to pull from maybe this trauma article would be applicable or I think Australia's doing this with Australian Football that can maybe apply, but it's so nice to see and some of the... It's our colleagues doing the work.

Grant Harris:

Amazing.

Joel Totoro:

Some of these research articles that it's... I always think there's a, what do we think? What do we know? What can we prove and we have to play in what we know and what we are pretty confident will be proven but it's great to finally have been in the industry long enough. And you've seen it in the last couple years where these things we've been saying for years, we can now put a peer review journal behind be like, actually, these are the vitamin D numbers are professional athletes.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. So, that's been great to watch and really, I think you're like me, every conversation we have makes you think of three or four more things like, oh, okay, I've never thought of it that way, now I need a plan for this, which is great, but also, can get pretty daunting. So appreciate having people like you to bounce ideas off of. But I do want to touch a little bit specific to supplementation in major league baseball in their one of the leagues that do it the best as far as player safety.

Joel Totoro:

But can you talk a little bit about the importance of third party testing we use NSF for sport, not just for the safety and efficacy but what an actual positive means for somebody, one of your players?

Grant Harris:

Yeah. I mean baseball is the most strict league that you can work with, I'm pretty sure, I know the Olympic testing is pretty rigorous as well, but collegiate too but MLB, we are only allowed to provide our athletes NSF certified for sport products. And that is limiting sometimes just because it is an expensive certification process that companies need to go it through so, it can limit our options. But at the same time it provides us the best possible options as well.

Grant Harris:

So we know what we're getting. We know that there's not going to be anything that's contaminating these products, whether that be in the actual product itself or where it's manufactured because a lot of the things we work with are manufactured with something that might contaminate the product down the line.

Grant Harris:

So, fortunately through MSF and other sources, we're able to verify that these are safe products for athletes. And it's really detrimental. I mean, they get hit and they get hit hard. They get tested for a lot of stuff too. So, they got to make sure that they know what they're putting in their body and they know that it's safe for them to take. Otherwise, they're going to get popped and they're going to miss some time they're going to miss some pay and that's the last thing they want to do.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. And I think people don't realize how daunting it is of a task to keep bad substances out of a locker room or out of a sport. I know there's the intentional doping, but I've seen anything from and major league baseball because they made such a big point of it, probably a little different than football, but there's there's agents or family, friends are trying to be good and it's, oh, this electrolyte powder or this protein not knowing the steps they have to go to and how difficult it is to make a clean product.

Joel Totoro:

So, we've seen too many accidental exposures and especially if you're at the minor league level and your salary's not extra and you really can't afford to take some time off and taking time off may prohibit your ability to get to the next level. So, it really is an important to ask. And I think major league baseball is great, they were the first to mandate every team have a dietician available, which is great progress to you. And I common sense, but it's good to put some structure on that.

Joel Totoro:

But we've talked a lot about baseball but you've worked across a number or different sports in your career. What are some of the common themes you see or are there learnings you took from different sports that you've seen apply to baseball?

Grant Harris:

Just in terms of supplements or in-

Joel Totoro:

No, just in general.

Grant Harris:

-Just in general. I mean, I think we hit on a little bit before about the food first kind of thing is my go-to and developing that relationship and rapport with athletes and the coaches. It's your family that you're working with. You spend so much time in these facilities and at the games and working with these people who are not your blood family, but they become your family because you're there all the time and developing those relationships is key.

Grant Harris:

Because then you build that trust as I tapped into a little bit earlier and they're able to open up a bit more and you find out a lot about the athletes that they might not have opened up to you previously. So, it's developing that trust I think that's what I always go back to is, if I don't know an athlete or a staff or whoever it may be, I really try to go out of my way to let them know that I'm available for them whenever they need, whether I'm be working on my computer or working in the kitchen or at home, I always want them to know that they can get ahold of me if they need to.

Grant Harris:

And that's what we're here for. We're here to help them, it's not about us. It's not about us working in the field, it's about helping athletes prosper and achieves their goals. Because they're the elite, obviously that's who we're working with. And if we can help them improve that one or 2% that's what we're there For.

Joel Totoro:

That's a great mindset. This is a very specific question, but so you've been able to provide high quality nutrition at a minor league budget through a pandemic. What looking forward to eventually there's an end to this. What are you looking forward to most about really growing your program once you have a bunch of limitations lifted?

Grant Harris:

Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's been really fun working with the Indians now Cleveland Guardians over the past few years, because the program's grown with me slowly and I didn't even realize it. We now have another dietician on staff, Miguel Salise, he also has his culinary background. So between the two of us, we've been able to really restructure the program and what we got working here.

Grant Harris:

We offer the same products from top to bottom in our program which sometimes not always cost effective for those my league athletes or for our budget for the minor leaguers. But we stress to our organization that we find that's essential to provide those same things for the major league at the minor league level as well because development of those younger players, I think is where we can have our biggest impact.

Grant Harris:

The major league players they've been doing it for years. They know what they're doing for the most part and we're tweaking things here and there it's the minor leagues where I think we can have the most impact, really get our hands dirty with helping them develop and find those diamonds in the rough that you might not find otherwise.

Grant Harris:

So that's what I'm most excited about is getting back out there and traveling to affiliates more and seeing the players face to face because wearing masks and all this other kind of stuff, it's keeping us safe, but it's also keeps everyone guarded at the same time too. So I think just being more present with all the athletes is key.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. You talked a little bit about the development model and I think it's pretty unique in baseball. It's similar to the English or international soccer academy or football academy style where you get them young, you teach them the principals young, you've been here a few years, are you finally starting to see that trickle up? Like, Hey, what I taught you in single a ball, like it's still working and is that make your job a little bit easier or the culture a little bit easier to really embrace nutrition because it's just, this is what we do.

Grant Harris:

No, absolutely. You're looking into my head right now is, it's been cool because I started as the minor league coordinator with the Indians and now working as the director with the major league team. We have players coming up and we have a lot of young players coming up. We have a very young team in relation to the rest of the league.

Grant Harris:

So, working with some of these athletes that I might have worked with in the past, it's awesome because they'll come up to me like, "Hey, remember we worked on this a couple years ago. I been fallen off it a little bit. Can we touch base again?" And it's just an instant rapport and it's quick, it's a quick hitter because we know what they've been through and we can go back to those basics with them and be like, "Yeah, look, this is what you're doing before. Lets get you back on track and then see how you doing." And it's exciting. I love seeing them progress and make their goals happen. It's really cool.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I mean it's rewarding. I mean it's why we're here. It's so nice that you're able to follow that because so often you work with an athlete and then you know you're following from afar. So it's great that you have those touch points. All right, I'm going to ask you one more question then we're going to take a break and take some questions from our listeners. But I know a lot of what you and I talked to, if this was just a normal conversation between two of us, we're always think forward or getting excited about what's next. Do you have anything you're super excited about to see either grow or learn a little bit more or more research come out about?

Grant Harris:

Yeah. I mean, I'm constantly trying to learn more. I think I said earlier, I was trying to put my nutrition hat on a bit more and get out of the kitchen just because you can become complacent and be comfortable in what you're doing already and not learn more about anything. So personally, I'm starting to take the CSSD soon. I am learning a lot at the moment about the field in general and broadening my horizons.

Grant Harris:

But for me personally, it's a personal goal for me to get us improved in some of our body comp measurements with the Guardians. We're working with [embody 00:16:52] right now and we're to step up our game there. So I've been really digging into that a little bit more, which is exciting. I'm learning a lot in terms of how the processes are done and the new gold standards, whether that be Bod Pod or DEXA and how they're applicable.

Grant Harris:

And then it all relates back to their nutrition. It relates back to their supplementation. It's this guy has been having fractures or needs a surgery because his bone marrow density is lower. And we can see that with this DEXA, whereas we're not able to see that in this 2D model of the embody and trying to help administration see the importance behind that and not look at the dollar sign so much as the value we can provide for the athletes.

Grant Harris:

And in the long run, how much that can provide that's my main goal is developing that understanding and knowledge for the front office so that we can really help our team out.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I think that's so important. You hit on something anyone who listens has heard me say 1,000 times, but so much of our careers are treating part of the human performance. And once you start putting it in those uncertain terms where, Hey, this is a health, a longevity, these are all things I can predict. I can predict that team docs can predict the strength and condition. If we have this data, we can predict, we're going to tell you these things are probably going to happen. So let's have a plan for it now.

Joel Totoro:

And I think that's super exciting that shift from injury response to wellness promotion and it's... we are seeing it, performance is going up, careers are getting longer, post playing career lives are significantly more fulfilling because they're more mobile, they just end in a little better place than previously athletes have just assumed yeah, okay, this is a trade off, I've lived this life but here's the post playing career consequences.

Joel Totoro:

So yeah, I'm really excited to see and hear organizations like the Guardians and you and your staff, what you're doing there, it's super uplifting. And I think something we can all look at taking an inventory of how we're doing individually, do we have a Cleveland Guardian plan for ourselves? So that's really exciting to hear. We're going to take a quick break and when we get back, we're going to dig into some more specific questions that our listeners have for you. So stay tuned, we'll be right back.

Joel Totoro:

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Joel Totoro:

And we're back. All right, Grant, let's get into some of these questions. This was from a high school player. So we get that a lot. Should high school players take supplementation and if they do, do you have any recommendations or just general high school, youth nutrition recommendations?

Grant Harris:

It's funny, I look back on my own high school career whenever I get this question because as we stated before, nutrition and sports nutrition is a new field. It's very new in terms of not only collegiate and professional but just now it's really it breaking into that high school level. I know that's the new venture for performance nutrition.

Grant Harris:

So, I think it's super interesting that people are considering development so much earlier because what did I hit on before is we have the most impact on our minor league players. It's not the major league players where we're having the huge impact, it's the minor leaguers that we're really seeing how much we can help develop them and send the right direction. So, I think absolutely high school is a time to get into using supplementation.

Grant Harris:

Of course, I always food first concept, like crap in high school, so you should not do that if in high school, but also covering those bases and helping develop your body, whatever the case may be, sport specific, that is a route that can be taken through supplementation I think just basic knowledge even of hydration and using certain products to keep your body well hydrated or protein powder or a multivitamin, a daily multivitamin to cover those bases because we all know high schoolers are not eating the best, as I just said, we're eating pizza in the cafeteria and then we're going out and running our laps on the track.

Grant Harris:

And somehow, fortunately, young enough to rebound from everything they put their bodies through. But having that nutrition would just be a step in that right direction that could get them to that collegiate level to be in the D1 versus a D2 program. It's those minuscule little changes that might not seem so important but they really have a big effect in the long run.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah, I think that's super important and I'm so glad that we're seeing sports nutrition, athletic training, strength, conditioning, there's a real programming at the high school level and access to that information because I think so many people underestimate the caloric needs not just to do your sport, which we think about but you're still growing, there's calories needed to and nutrients needed to grow.

Joel Totoro:

So, I'm excited to see that we're getting there and think back similar to you about what we did in high school that we thought was right. And now we're seeing and Thorne did a research study and we're seeing it more and more even at the collegiate level with unlimited feeding and unlimited our are multiple dieticians and really all the support you can have still some deficiencies in the nutrition because the needs are high and the food quality may not be perfect in a certain nutrient.

Joel Totoro:

It's interesting for so long, we would just say like, eh, no, just go with food but we're starting to see more and more, we can read the science and get to know and do individual testing on athletes to know where they're at. So, it's not a no, it's a yes if. So if you're hitting these, if you're making an effort, if you're doing... you can't like you said, have pizza for lunch in a multivitamin and be like, all right, I'm cool.

Joel Totoro:

But I love the fact that there is so much support and education and access to information at that level. So, hopefully we are seeing some of these under fueling issues, preventing and some of these good habits starting at 16, 17, 18, and not okay, my talent is, catching up. Everyone's as talented as I am now, I need an edge, let's get it at the front end. So yeah, exciting part time to be a part of this industry. But falling up on this one, another high school question, can a high school baseball player do keto?

Grant Harris:

Keto is my favorite topic to talk about with all my athletes actually. Keto's tough, the thing I put out there for them first and foremost is, is keto sustainable? Can you do this for a long period of time? And if you can, is this going to help your performance? Why are you wanting the keto? And what's the purpose behind it? Okay, you're working on your body composition.

Grant Harris:

Someone maybe said that you need to lower your body fat percentage X, Y, and Z. You want to use those different energy systems. But in the long run, is it going to be beneficial to throw harder on the field, to make it to that between first and second base, you have to have that explosive energy on the field, regardless of whatever position you're playing and sometimes keto just, isn't going to do it for you.

Grant Harris:

You're going to need carbs for energy, you're going to need to use those explosive movements to succeed and be the best player you can be. So, I'm never going to say no to an athlete. If an athlete you is really driven and wanting to do something, I will help them to the best of my ability succeed at whatever they want to do, whether that be keto or any other idea they have.

Grant Harris:

But if they want to succeed and really perform at the highest level, I don't think that keto is the way to it, especially for a high school athlete as you said before, they have so many more needs then maybe an adult athlete who is their metabolism slowing down, they might not need as much calories in and that kind of thing. So, they can use a little bit less caloric intake but for a high school athlete, you need to be in all day long and eating the right foods and a wide variety of foods. So don't limit yourself.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah, no, I think that's great. I have the same attitude, it's yes, if you're willing to do this, this and this and a lot of people aren't willing to do everything that needs to do once you eliminate a major source of nutrients. So spot on there man, I'm right with you. All right. Let's roll into another, this listener ask, my coaches recommending creatine over protein. What do you recommend?

Grant Harris:

So that's a tough question because I honestly recommend both for a lot of athletes and why is it one or the other? There are two very different supplements that are affecting two very different parts of your performance, the creatine you need for that explosive power what I hit on when we were talking about keto, that whole energy system is for that quick burst of energy that you need explosive movements.

Grant Harris:

So that's where creatine really comes in, it helps get that sort of bulk if you're looking to get a little bit more density with your lean body mass and everything, whereas protein, I think is just a daily need for recovery and maintenance and overall health. So I would never say one or the other is my short response to that. Just because you can use both and it's athlete specific, someone might not need protein just because they already have good explicit of power or they don't feel like they, want to have that bulk to them or whatever the case may be but I think both is the right answer there for me, at least majority of the time.

Joel Totoro:

I just feel like when I get questions like that, it's like I'm back in college and it's one of the trick questions you're like, it's A and B but sometimes C, you're like, that's not the same thing. So, this is a big to topic we hear a lot about. And I know the nutrition world we've talked about it a lot. I'm sure you get them even at the major league level. What's your take on pre-workouts and the current commercially available pre-workouts versus what you actually prescribe for fueling around a game.

Grant Harris:

Yeah. I mean, baseball, that's the pre-workout central. I feel like we help fuel the business because if a guy doesn't have pre-workout, he's not going to be able to function whatsoever on the field it seems like sometimes. So, I'm a proponent, I definitely support pre-workout because it can help you with your focus and just getting that drive and excitement ready for the game, it hones in and gets them really dialed in.

Grant Harris:

But I think it's also, you need to be careful about how much you do because you can become a little resistant to it. I don't know, I'm missing the word right now but you need to take a break every once in a while so that your body's able to really utilize that caffeine and the other aspects of pre-workouts that are going into that really help you dial up. There's a crap on pre-workouts available in the market.

Grant Harris:

And we go back to what we were talking about before with NSF, you got to be careful because you never know what they're putting in there. And whether it be, I think it was like deer antler extract or something at some point.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. That was a thing that was a Baltimore Ravens thing. Yeah.

Grant Harris:

Yeah. So you just got to be careful because you don't know what they're putting in there and why, and if it's... that could pop you, it could test positive again. So it is just being really careful in selecting those pre-workouts carefully because health concerns and all the other things as well, but whatever helps you focus the best and really get dialed in, that's what you're going to shoot for.

Grant Harris:

So I always go back to the whole foods. Always, I'm going to be dragging us away from the supplement conversation back to whole foods in coffee, cold brew, that's a big deal for baseball as well. If we don't have coffee, there's usually a revolt happening in the building. That's another great pre-workout that if a guy is wanting to maybe dial back a little bit, I always recommend but there's some good ones on the market.

Grant Harris:

I try to stay wage just because I'm awake for 17 hours after I take pre-workout just because I'm not used to all the other additive stuff in there. I get a little twitchy. So, that's another thing I got to warn guys about.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I think you hit on a couple things I always run into. So, the idea of pre-workout it means so many different things to so many different people and so much of it is really the caffeine and there's studies around to look at caffeine and performance and you talked about the science evolving, we now know yeah, you may take caffeine and may excite you for a very long period of time, you're a slow metabolizer.

Joel Totoro:

And then I grew up in a Sicilian family where we had espresso after dinner and people went to bed, sometimes, the grandparents were asleep within 30 minutes. So, but I do think... So caffeine does have a role. I think you did hit on a major topic when we talked about NSF is that there's not as much regulation when you're not running through NSF or if you have a food label versus a supplement label and not everybody follows the rules correctly.

Joel Totoro:

So it is pretty important to see like you said, what is actually in it and what is that company's history, do they have a history of manufacturing where they're hopefully following guidelines, but again, we always divert back to NSF for sport, just to... It's great for the company to say they do things well but that's what third party is there for is to somebody else prove it for you. But this is a follow up question on that.

Joel Totoro:

So I think a lot of times, pre-workout has it place and caffeine has its place in sport but too often people rely on that because there is that stimulant effect of the caffeine. People confuse that with actual caloric energy. So cool, you're taking a pre-workout but what some of your nutrients or what's your food going into a competition?

Grant Harris:

I mean, once again, you hit the nail in the head, "Grant, I just have no energy. I need a Red Bull or I need X, Y, and Z to get me that energy." And that's that caffeine and the pre-workout that you're talking about before that guys usually go to but it's carbs. I mean, you need carbs for energy. You need to be dialed in and be hydrated as well.

Grant Harris:

There's your body, if it's not well hydrate and have a good set of carbs going into a game and you're going to feel sluggish, you're going to depreciate pretty quickly because our core elements are base needs. And if you're not satisfying them, then it's going to be tough to perform at your peak level.

Joel Totoro:

This question is about the different kind of positions. So, how does pitchers nutritional needs differ from those of other positions, they play every fifth day, those kind of things, or is everybody individual for you?

Grant Harris:

Yeah. It's very individual basis. Even our starting pitchers, like you said, they have their rotation where they pitch and then they have their five day build up and down. And I work with each of them individually because they do have varying needs, whether that's their energy on the mound or their recovery or their preparation going into the games or whatever the case may be.

Grant Harris:

And then we have our relief pitchers too, who are, they might be playing several days in a row and they only pitch maybe two-thirds of an or something like that. They're out, they're along but their needs are just as high because they have to be constantly prepared in case they're going to get called into the game. So, even within pitchers, there's a huge variability versus other positions on the field.

Joel Totoro:

Never ending for you. It really is there's no baseball diet.

Grant Harris:

Job security.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I used to love that people like, "Can I get a football diet? I was like... I have about 48 questions for you before we can answer that. So we're going to end on a little bit of a crossover here, as you know where one of our partners is CrossFit and you are a CrossFit participant. Can you talk a little bit about what CrossFit means to you and a little bit of a nutrition role how you feel CrossFit differently than some other training but just knowing your practitioner that actually participates in it, love to get your thoughts.

Grant Harris:

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I am a lowkey CrossFit because it is so taboo I think across our field still on a lot of strength, conditioning and other performance experts might not always agree with the CrossFit prescription for fitness. I am a full believer that it's what you put in. You got to be safe as long as you're lifting safe and you have that good foundation. I think it's a way to utilize a lot of different energy systems within a short amount of time.

Grant Harris:

Being able to be healthy for myself and go get a pre-workout in an hour and not spend several hours in the gym at a time is key for me because I'm able to hit high intensity and get some strength in there at the same time while also doing some recovery. Constantly being sore because that's what I am, I am always sore with CrossFit and that's for me, I mean that's, it's laughable because that's how I always measure, am I doing any work well I'm sores all heck. So yeah, I must be getting something out of it.

Grant Harris:

I've been doing CrossFit for about seven years now and it's definitely changed my outlook on fueling because I even as a dietician had been under fueling for a long time and my recovery was not there and I didn't realize it until I started fueling to where I needed to be able to recover appropriately, to even form on a day to day basis. I am not a games athlete, I'm not going to Madison or California wherever they're having the games this year being an elite level.

Grant Harris:

But for myself and my own level of performance, I was not at my highest capability and I'm still not. I'm still growing to that point because I'm still working on my own nutrition as a dietician. I'm always developing and trying to tweak and see what I can do to make myself better.

Joel Totoro:

Yeah. I think what we see a lot in that community too is a couple things that you hit on is the sport or the training goes to your ability. But what I love about the CrossFit especially for you, someone who's on the road so much is that you can walk into a CrossFit gym and you've got an instant community and support system and it's actual helpful coaching or at least encouragement as opposed to, we've all been in the random gym in Baltimore where you're like, I need to lift or I need some motivation.

Grant Harris:

Well those hotel gyms are not always well equipped either.

Joel Totoro:

There's that too. Yes. It's okay, what's within five miles. Who's got a car? Oh, the struggle. Well Grant, man, I really appreciate your time. And I know we could have done another couple hours of just talking about the industry. I love having you on, we'll look to maybe have you on in the future. I think there's so many more topics we can cover but really appreciate your unique perspective on the performance world and yeah, thanks for coming on, man. We appreciate your time.

Grant Harris:

No, thank you, Joel. It's been fun, it's always, it's great to catch up with you and hope we can do it again sometime.

Joel Totoro:

All right. That was Grant Harris with the Cleveland Guardians. Thanks everyone for listening. Thanks for listening to the Thorne Podcast performance edition. Make sure to never miss an episode by subscribing to the show on your podcast app of choice. You can also learn more about the topics we discussed by visiting thorne.com and checking out the latest news, videos and stories on Thorne's Take 5 Daily block. For this performance edition of the Thorne Podcast, I'm Joel Totoro, reminding everyone to stay active and stay hydrated.

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